Today is the first official day of the Trollparty in Caracas. There were some problems with getting internet connection working etc., but the most important stuff seems solved. So lets get rolling! :)

Get the timeline here: http://caracas.trollparty.org/tiki-calendar.php

For all the people not yet knowing, what a trollparty is, here's a good explanation:

[22:24:50] digao - mose: i feel that i get the idea. and seens that you are doing a exciting job. but i don't realize this in action, i mean what the trolls are doing? :)
[22:25:41] lorinc - tinkering with stuff and chatting 'bout it ;)
[22:25:50] lorinc - like all other people
[22:26:18] lorinc - and as it seems trolls are different people ;)
[22:26:42] lorinc - tinkerin' with different stuff ;)
[22:26:58] lorinc - and combined tinkerin' is the trollish key ;)
[22:27:17] lorinc - well... as far as i gotit.
[22:27:38] digao - lorinc: tinkerin??? (sorry, poor english)
[22:28:24] lorinc - http://www.thejackcat.com/AC/Shopping/Crafts/Tinkering.htm :)
[22:37:17] digao - lorinc: its more cleaner now
[22:38:09] lorinc - :)

In the bootstrapping of the trollparty there were already some interesting discussions on #trollparty. One of them was with qopi aka Josef Davies-Coates.

Sorry, I'm missing the IRC-log, that started all that. KVirc starts a new log every day and it seems, that the one of 14.12.2005 got lost. But let me see, what I can extract from the log of 15.12.2005... ;)

[00:09:31] qopi opened an account on delirious ages ago
[00:10:18] <qopi> but delicious has always had a considerable edge in terms of both usability and users
[00:11:00] <amette> yeah, right, just as Windows
[00:11:23] <qopi> I've never looks myself (because I wouldn't know what I was looking at) but all the coders I know say that it is a pretty poorly coded piece of software
[00:11:49] <amette> what? de.lirio.us ?
[00:11:52] <qopi> yes, in some ways like how windows was still better than 2 linux on the desktop a couple of years ago
[00:12:29] <qopi> yes, delirious, lots of open source people I know have said that they don't actually think much of delirious, which is a shame
[00:12:40] <qopi> have you seen fraggle?
[00:13:36] <r1> http://www.londonist.com/image/fraggle.jpg ? :)
[00:13:55] <amette> Well, IMHO we need an OpenSource delicious quickly! It's the power of information-organization of this afternoon! (ontologoy is tomorrow)
[00:14:09] <amette> and saying: it's poorly coded - I go with proprietary.........................................
[00:14:42] mose is looking at delirious code and understands
[00:15:47] qopi meant frassle
[00:16:01] <qopi> http://frassle.net/
[00:16:05] <H0ney> Title: Home - frassle (at frassle.net)
[00:16:26] <qopi> that looked quite interesting
[00:17:15] <amette> Well, delirious is OpenSource - WTF - code some better! The data-format is OpenSource! The interface to it is OpenSource! Once there is a better system - migrate the delirious data!! You won't have it that easily with delicious - I promise!
[00:17:33] <amette> The code might be bad - but underlying is something much more severe than just code!
[00:17:43] <amette> So put the data into the bad code that handles it!

So, amette is going some ranting-course here. Still reasonable, but already going toward ranting.. some people recognise and start trolling... ;)

[00:17:44] <mose> do it :)
[00:18:04] <amette> You won't die from it - but you are free to get your data back in a clean way!
[00:18:11] <r1> amette: yeah good idea !!! do it :)
[00:18:19] <mose> I vote amette do it
[00:18:22] <amette> mose : I am doing that! With bata in Tiki! But we all now, that Tiki can't handle that!
[00:18:26] <r1> me too :)
[00:18:43] <amette> Great - I have people voting for me! :)
[00:18:57] <r1> mose: amette is saying that tiki sucks !!! :)
[00:19:02] <amette> I never wanted that - but they do it! That's a cool feeling! :)
[00:19:03] <qopi> amette: i can easily export and/or mirror my delicious data
[00:19:07] <mose> well, it does
[00:19:17] <r1> recode it !!!
[00:19:21] <r1> yeah do it :)
[00:19:24] <amette> r1 : join 
[00:19:32] <amette> join #tikiwiki - mose just blocks that ;)
[00:19:47] <r1> mouarf :)
[00:19:48] <mose> what do you pretend I block ?
[00:20:05] <r1> yeah !!! I have launched a big troll :) !!

Well, discussion gets funny - but outta control. r1 is right, big troll! ;)

[01:44:13] <qopi> amette: imho we need an open source ebay and google more than we need an open source delicious ;)
[01:44:43] <mose> +1
[01:44:55] <qopi> (ebay including paypal and skype, of course)
[01:45:04] <mose> and skype and googlemap
[01:45:16] <qopi> and google *
[01:45:29] <qopi> http://labs.google.com
[01:45:31] <H0ney> Title: Google Labs (at labs.google.com)
[01:45:42] <qopi> we need all that :P
[01:45:55] <niclone> +2
[01:46:13] <mose> btw, we now have a contact with some executive in vive TV
[01:46:39] <mose> in paris there is a meeting on 19th dec
[01:46:51] <qopi> and maybe if we could clearly explain the power and public benefit of such a system to the world-wide co-operative movement...
[01:46:55] <mose> with authors of http://www.vive.gob.ve/videos_prog.php?id=16&p=Documentales&url=doc_pasoandes1.swf
[01:47:04] <qopi> mose: great news :)
[01:47:51] <amette> qopi : open source google is worked upon as well as open source ebay - they are just not as well developed as open source delicious - delirious is usable, the other stuff isn't - so why not use it?
[01:48:36] <qopi> because just because it is open source doesn't mean it is worth using
[01:48:48] <amette> yes, exactly that _does_ mean it!
[01:49:14] <qopi> often it does, not always
[01:49:40] <amette> No, always! It's mostly just personal lazyness, that makes you use proprietary tools!
[01:49:54] <qopi> jejeje
[01:50:00] <amette> People don't use Linux because: "Aah, stuff doesn't work!"
[01:50:10] <amette> "But I believe in freedom! Yes!"
[01:50:12] <amette> Pfffff............
[01:50:21] <mose> I do
[01:50:30] <amette> me, too
[01:50:31] <qopi> "People don't use Linux because: "Aah, stuff doesn't work!" exactly
[01:50:38] <mose> I have quit all my former skills for ideological reasons
[01:50:46] <r1> +3

Yes, we all don't use stuff, because 'it don't work'... :-/
But well, how aware are we of the consequences...?

[01:50:46] <amette> Yes, and stuff won't work, if the critical mass isn't reached
[01:50:59] <mose> but that's not a choice that can be proposed. it only can be taken
[01:51:11] <amette> Yes, exactly - it can only be taken...
[01:51:21] <amette> ... I can _offer_ it - but not propose
[01:51:54] <mose> s/offer/demonstrate/
[01:52:05] <amette> "People are intelligent!" - "No, one guy is intelligent - _people_ are a big, huge mass of stupid creatures!"
[01:52:34] <amette> I do both - I demonstrate and offer
[01:52:37] <qopi> no, collective intelligence is more powerful the any one guy :P
[01:52:44] <qopi> s/the/than
[01:53:09] <amette> Yes, but you don't get collective intelligence, when some people hold on to centralized systems.
[01:53:27] <qopi> depends
[01:53:34] <amette> ???
[01:53:41] <qopi> to take delicious, since you mentioned it
[01:54:30] <acracia> i think we missed the point, because when we choose free software, at least me, it's because we think about it as a mean of production and as a big transformer into people's lifes. not because it's better technically
[01:55:00] <amette> go on, qopi - I'm eager to see, how you get to the long-term benefit of using a closed source social-bookmarking-service.....
[01:55:00] <acracia> i mean, software is a big thing. there are better softs on propietary software on some fields
[01:55:02] <qopi> while it is centralized, the reason it has worked so well is because it joshua listened to what people said and was responsive to his community of users
[01:55:04] <mose> free software is not just about software
[01:55:06] <acracia> and free ones on others
[01:55:12] <mose> it's about freedom

Oh, oh, oh - did we reach the goal?! - Freedom?

[01:55:30] <qopi> lots of open sources projects are open, which I think is far more ethical, but also less responsive

Ok, about that I gotta have some very personal talk with him!!!

[01:56:02] <qopi> of course, this isn't always true, and as a genral rule most open source projects *are* much more responsive to feekback
[01:58:29] <amette> Yes, it's about freedom! mose said it! And that is a much wider word, than most people recognize! Decentralisation is another thing, that plays a role here! delirious isn't perfect either! In the long term I work for Tikis communicating with each other - representing true virtual projection of real life! delirious can't do that despite being open source! It's not distributed!
[01:58:54] <amette> But delirious is the better choice than delicious! Because it is open source!
[01:59:03] <amette> You get more freedom from it!
[01:59:23] <qopi> amette: I agree, we need a totally distributed alternative
[01:59:38] <qopi> amette: like you say, freedom is a wide word
[01:59:03] <amette> You get more freedom from it!
[01:59:23] <qopi> amette: I agree, we need a totally distributed alternative

Really coming to some consensus here...

[01:59:38] <qopi> amette: like you say, freedom is a wide word
[01:59:46] <mose> like the web2.0 project 
[01:59:56] <mose> or 'idea'
[02:00:04] <amette> The semantic net - the next, needed, step in the evolution of the internet - do you think, it should be handleded by one instance? No! (As I now already see from your comments ;) )
[02:00:07] <mose> I'm still wondering what it is
[02:00:22] <amette> But as far as we can go already now - we should go!!
[02:00:36] <amette> And that also means: Use delirious in favour of delicious!
[02:00:42] <amette> No matter how bad the code is!
[02:00:44] <qopi> i find that the collective intelligence I can extract from delicious (due to its critcal mass of users, like you mentioned) also greatly increases my capabilities of improving my freedom
[02:01:14] <amette> qopi : Yes, that it does! Absolutely! Without any question!
[02:01:44] <amette> But your personal lazyness keeps you from taking the next step - the step to the same concept on an open infrastucture!
[02:01:55] <amette> And that step gives you long term freedom!
[02:01:58] <qopi> and to me, on balance, that outweighs the bit of freedom I would get by switching to delirious

Ouch....

[02:02:14] <amette> It's a strategic choice...
[02:02:26] <qopi> amette: bear in mind that on a day to day basis I've only used linux for about 2 years :)
[02:02:27] <mose> a personal one
[02:02:52] <amette> qopi : Bear in mind, that I only used free software for about 2 years
[02:03:09] <amette> I refused to sign up with proprietary services other than testing!
[02:03:20] <qopi> and I've distributed 100s of copies of ubuntu and theopencd etc too :P
[02:03:29] <qopi> amette: good for you! :P
[02:03:30] <amette> Yes, I have a google-mail account - because I wanted to see the technology - but I don't use it!
[02:03:37] <qopi> likewise
[02:03:37] <amette> qopi : Good for you, too!!

And here I missed the Killer-argument - and this killer-argument really pursued me some nights in my dreams! Good for you - yeah, right! But really killer it only gets, when you say, for whom it is good, too! It's good, because you very unselfishly get people out of the lock-in... it's good for him, too! ;)

[02:03:52] <qopi> amette: bet you use google though don't you?

Damnit!! - He got me, he really got me!!! :P

[02:03:52] <amette> Don't you guys understadn network-effects?!?!?

Veeery desperate try to get out of that.... ;)

[02:04:04] <amette> qopi : Yes, that's my last sin! I admit!

Ok, that's the thing, I wanted to go for with this whole blog-post.....

[02:04:14] <qopi> are you vegan?
[02:04:16] <mose> your presomption on what we undestrand is hazardeous amette
[02:04:24] <amette> Nope, I eat flesh! :)
[02:04:30] <qopi> do you only purchase ethical goods?
[02:04:41] <qopi> what is your fossil fuel consumption?
[02:05:15] <amette> qopi : Well, ethical goods - that's a tricky question... I use computer hardware - they are often made by people who suffer from doing it...
[02:05:24] <amette> .. I don't consume fuel at all..
[02:05:36] <qopi> that is nonsense

Ok, conversation ended here.....

[02:05:41] <qopi> you would be dead
[02:05:46] <amette> .. but it's still a different thing with material and immaterial goods!
[02:05:53] <mose> stop trolling, that can be endless
[02:06:04] <amette> Aren't we on a trollparty? ;)
[02:06:08] <qopi> but mose, this is a trollparty!

Hmmm, perhaps not.... the two main guys understand each other... ;)

Well, whatever - mose diffused that discussion after that... it just disappeared.

I want to revive it - right here - right NOW!

I am not the digital saint! I found at least two digital sins in the last week. They just appeared out of nowhere. I didn't even really know about them. I have been thinking about them... yes...!! But I didn't really realize them!

1. http://www.google.com
2. http://www.ebay.com
3. http://www.imdb.com
4. http://www.last.fm

The last one you can even see in the right column of my web-site... :-/

Yes, people get blind just by using this stuff...
.. am I good because I noticed it - or am I good because I am a bad example..?

Am I good...... - at all...?

While chatting with lorinc today in #trollparty it turned out, that his dad has been studying here in Ilmenau, too! World is small! :)

12:25:03] lorinc - amette: do you live in ilmenau, or "only" studying?
[12:25:31] amette - only studying
[12:26:18] niclone [n=nicod@blurp.yi.org] hat #trollparty betreten
[12:26:20] lorinc - my father studied there as well some 30-40 years back ;) 
[12:26:31] lorinc - its a small world ;)
[12:26:33] amette - weee, kewl! :)
[12:26:35] lorinc - hi niclone
[12:26:37] amette - Yeah, really small! :)
[12:26:41] niclone - hola
[12:26:51] lorinc - he asked which "block" you were living in... ;)
[12:27:13] lorinc - i showed him our caracas webcam initiative ;)
[12:27:14] amette - I'm not living on Campus, but on "Stollen" - he'll know that, too! ;)
[12:27:51] amette - hehe, yeah, I'm sure, I'll recognize any block-image for my whole life, too! :)
[12:28:11] lorinc - r1: i dunno any well-paying jobs around, but i would recommend the feel of living in budapest, ;P
[12:28:34] lorinc - amette: i will tell him the "truth" ... he even wanted to see an outside shot ;)
[12:29:44] lorinc going out for lunch... brb
[12:32:10] amette - lorinc : hehe, ok, tell him ;)  - I'll provide you with an outside shot later! :)  - going for a smoke now

So here's a panorama-image package with additional location information - amette_room-outlook_20060116.tar.bz2 - dedicated to one of Ilmenau's pioneers! ;)

The old webcam was really a big annoyance - unplugging made it most of the time stop working. Then some module reloading and plugging (and luck and patience) was needed to get it running again.
The Logitech Pro 4000 works with the same driver (pwc), doesn't make any problems (yet) and has better image quality! :)

I can reach the other machines on the network by their hostname. The Fritz!Box DHCP/Name-server does consider the hostnames given to the DHCP-clients. Only debian doesn't configure the DHCP-client out of the box to provide the hostname. The two gentoo machines do it without any problems.

So, I'm sorry! ;)